Author Topic: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action  (Read 832 times)

jglobig1

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Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« on: February 07, 2017, 08:11:49 AM »
Hi 219 / 220 Enthusiasts!
I am in need of some gunsmithing guidance.  I am a casual 220 collector and recently purchased a .30–30 219 barrel and forend that I want to fit to one of my 220s.  I am a pretty good amateur gunsmith but have never done this particular task before.  On one of the 220 actions, the barrel almost closes but not quite.  It closes enough to fire, but the barrel is not quite seated level in the action and the firing pin strikes right at the bottom edge of the primer. 
My question is how do you “fit” the barrel to the action?  Do you machine the hinge recess in the barrel block to allow the barrel to move forward slightly and close?  Of course if you machine the end of the chamber you are now affecting cartridge seating, etc. 
What is the mechanism that allows the barrel to square up to and lock up level in the action? Does the factory also fit the bottom of the barrel to fit the recess in the action or does the standard geometry of the manufacture allow the barrels to want to lay in there level and square?  I would appreciate any guidance from a gunsmith that has done this before.
Thanks!
Jim

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 09:05:14 AM »
Jim,  I hope someone can help you.  On the few barrels I have added to an action, only 2 fit perfectly.  The rest I had my gunsmith fit them.  I have no idea how he did it.  One thing I do know for sure, is to NOT make any modifications to your existing action.  If you do, then the original barrel and/or forearm may not fit.  The only action modification I can think of that will not alter the original barrel fitting, would be to get another Locking Block for use only with the new barrel.  Of course, swapping out the Locking Block every time you changed the barrel would be a real hassle.  Please keep us posted on your progress.  If any of your 220's have serial numbers, would you please share with me for my research, along with the exact model, i.e. 220A, etc.?  Good luck on your quest.  Garnett

Please be advised that my record of serial numbers have no names or addresses attached. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:13:38 AM by Garnett »

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 03:17:34 PM »
In the "Custom Gun" chapter of the Revised Edition of my book, "Savage Single Shot Arms". I mention the rebuild of a 219/220 I purchased with the 9 MM barrel, converted to .357 Magnum.  After almost all the work was done, I still needed to get the action/receiver color case hardened.  This was going to cost around $300 and there was no guarantee that my action would not warp during the process.  I found an almost new M220A for a very low price.   The case coloring was beautiful, about 99% original.  The 9 MM/.357 barrel fit perfectly, including the forearm.  When I tried to fit the M220 (12 gauge) barrel to the old action, it would not even go on!  The barrel lug is too wide.  So....off to my gunsmith for fitting.  So, again, I caution when buying a barrel for your gun, it may or may not fit. 

Sentry44

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 07:59:46 AM »
Wow!  This is all news to me.  Maybe Ive just been lucky so far.  I have an early 219 (from the - 219 - era) which came with a 30-30 and slender forend.  Ive since acquired a 16 gauge, 20 gauge, and 12 gauge polychoke amd all fit right into the recwiver like it was made for them.

The only issue is for the 12 amd 16 gauge you have to use the larger forend which came with the 16 ga barrel.  The 20 gauge uses the slender one from the 30-30.

The only problem ive encountered is the 12 ga wouldnt quite close on face...probably 8 thousanths gap.  So i sold it and will but another 12-er some other time.

Perhaps the reason everything has fit is because i am careful to only buy matching "Utica" stamp barrels?  I figure as ling as I stay in the same model era things should likely fit.

I mean, they did market them that way, no?

Sentry44

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 08:40:20 AM »
You could have the right idea about early vs. late.  The 220A I just mentioned is actually the 2nd modification from the original gun.  I have not added or changed very many barrels, maybe 5 total.  However, in changing barrels, the .219 Zipper I got from Mike, would not fit the first two actions I tried it on.   It would not close on one and would close, but with a gap between breech and action face.  It did fit perfect on the 3rd, which happened to be a First Model Utica "Utility" gun.

Mike Armstrong

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 10:17:27 AM »
I think we might start a thread of "219 Friendly 'Smiths"--guys we KNOW have done good work on 219/220s.   They are out there but "going fast."  They also tend to be not just old, but in odd corners of the country where not everyone wants a plastic rifle. 

 The only caveat I'd add is that most gunsmiths of any sort don't give guarantees on their work unless it's warranty work by a warranty 'smith.  But what do you have to lose if you have a barrel or gun you can't use as-is?

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2017, 01:43:49 PM »
Mike, this is a good idea.  I will talk with my two gunsmiths to see if they would like to be on such a list.

Mike Armstrong

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 10:38:56 AM »
I'm working with a guy that was recommended to me by a maker of barrel liners whose customers have had him reline several 219s that had wrecked bores.  If/when I see what his work is like, I'll let you know whether I would recommend him.  He sounds like an easy person to work with except for not using email (I prefer email to phone calls when discussing details.  But lots of 'smiths don't like it as much). 

This fellow is in rural Indiana.  He charges $50 per hour, not an unusual charge for custom work.  I'll ask him how long a typical barrel fit for a 219 barrel would take.

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 03:56:03 PM »
Mike, One of my local gunsmiths is willing to work on the 219's, particularly in fitting newly acquired barrels to your existing actions.  I have used him for years and am completely satisfied with his work.  I will list his contact information so anyone in need of his services can contact him direct.  PLEASE UNDERSTAND.....Should you use him and have any problem with his work, I cannot, nor will not, be responsible.  I am just listing him as a favor to readers of this forum, as a licensed gun smith, who is willing to work on these early M219/220 guns.  Harvey King, HK Custom Guns, 7641 Alabama Highway 22, Valley Grande, Alabama 36701.  Phone 334-875-2978    E-mail: Harvey-king@usa.net    I suggest phones as the best way to contact him.  His contact info is also listed in the Revised Edition of my book on page 281. 

I invite other readers to list gun smiths that you have used and are satisfied with their work on these type guns.  BUT PLEASE.....be sure you have their permission to do so.

Mike, have you talked with your guy about lining barrels yet?

Mike Armstrong

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 11:24:46 AM »
Thanks for the reference, Garnett.  I may have a job for your guy soon.

I had the buggered-up 219 B .22 Hornet I inherited from my uncle relined to .25-20 by a gunsmith in Indiana; he just finished it and I won't have it in hand until the new year since I'm going to be out of the country until early Jan. and didn't want him to ship it during the Christmas shipping glut.  I'll report on the job and how well (or poorly) it works when it gets here in January.  No chance to test it now even if I had it, since all out public ranges are closed by fires or fire hazard right now.  The one thing I know is that it wasn't cheap--lots of extra work caused by the oversized re-chamber that my unc. got talked into....

Everybody have a great Christmas and a safe and prosperous New Year!  One thing we can ALL afford is HOPE, and it has got us through a LOT!

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 12:26:08 PM »
Mike, I just have to ask this......did you consider the .25-35?  Merry Christmas!

Mike Armstrong

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 10:34:01 AM »
Yeah, Garnett, I gave the .25-35 serious consideration but decided on .25-20 because I have a couple and am set up to reload that ctg.  Other factors in my choice were that I don't hunt big game much any more, and .25-35 ammo, while undergoing something of a comeback, is hard to get in CA, almost as hard as .25-20.  And I have a big stash of factory .25-20 and only a box or so of .25-35.  And the 'smith I chose for the reline didn't have a chamber reamer for .25-35, so we would have had to rent one--another $60 bucks down the tube....

That said, .25-35 is a great choice for a 219 reline or rebore.  Accurate, doesn't kick; WILL kill deer or hogs if you can shoot (AND wait for a decent shot)!  And your 219 allows for a much better bullet choice for handloaders than any tube magazine lever action.

Garnett

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Re: Gunsmithing guidance - fitting 219 barrel to 220 action
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 11:25:14 AM »
There is just something about the old Winchester calibers that appeal to me......    .25-35, .38-55, etc.