Author Topic: Hornet barrel tough to open  (Read 398 times)

Sentry44

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Hornet barrel tough to open
« on: September 05, 2021, 12:19:15 PM »
Gents,

Help me think this through, please.  My .22 Hornet barrel fits perfectly on face, and opens and closes uncocked easily.  But after firing, whether live or dry firing, the top lever is tough to open. 

Again, not a function of having a round pressing on the ejector, because it does this even when dry fired.  But when de-cocked, the top lever moves easily...so this isn't a function of lubrication.

Thoughts on why this happens, and how to remedy?

Chris
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:15:49 PM by Sentry44 »

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2021, 01:18:48 PM »
Chris, what action style is your Hornet?  Early striker fired, or later internal hammer fired?  This information may help.

Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2021, 09:51:21 PM »
I neglected to mention that, sorry.

Mine is the earliest "- 219 -" Utica style.

Chris

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2021, 11:02:53 PM »
OK, thanks.  As I say in my book, I am not a gunsmith, but maybe someone here can help.

Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2021, 12:12:38 PM »
I recall when I installed a new ejector spring on my 30-30 barrel that it was too long, so I had to snip it.  This one is ok length, but im wondering if maybe the ejector starter pin is a 1/16 too long.  So I trimmed it a bit, but as I was tapping the lug pin back in apparently I broke the ejector hook in that little area where that other tiny pin goes.  So...

We will see if my starter pin theory is right once my new ejector hook arrives from Numrich... :-\

If anyone has a different theory, though, I'd love to hear it.

Chris
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:16:44 PM by Sentry44 »

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2021, 05:09:19 PM »
Chris, please let us know how this works out.  In my research on these models, I have found 3 different lengths for the ejector hook.  The two that Numrich had listed some time ago, are both longer than the one I used in a parts break down (one of my guns) in my book.  With the ejector hook completely removed from the gun, does it now open and close properly, whether fired or not?

Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2021, 05:45:37 PM »
Haven't tried that, but something tells me without the push-back on the end of the hook from the spring and starter pin, it wouldn't replicate the same.  I think i will wait to judge until I have the new one installed.

I know there are different sizes, as I've run i to that on other barrels.  So I ordered 3 and am hoping for the best.  If not too far off I might be able to grind a bit, but we'll see.

I want this thing running right, as this barrel is in especially good condition, and is factory drilled and tapped with original plug screws.  Savage did this on many models in the late 30's, but for some reason I don't generally see 219's done so.  This one's a good egg.

Chris
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:17:55 PM by Sentry44 »

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2021, 07:03:40 PM »
Chris, I am attaching a copy of page 239 of the newest edition, January 2021, of my book showing the 3 ejector hooks I have found.  Click on the picture to enlarge.  If you look closely you can see the slight difference in the 3.  My gunsmith/machinist says just a fraction difference can matter.  Savage says in their parts catalogs and on the parts envelopes, that parts are not interchangeable and may need fitting.  Since I took the shortest one pictured from my parts bin, I have no idea what model it was on.


Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2021, 07:10:48 AM »
Thanks Garnett!  Mine looks like the #3 or #4.  It broke in that area where there is only a little meat to the left of the small pin hole...of course.  Won't even ask why they designed it thusly...

I guess it'll be a few days til I know.  Bummer, as I live only 1.5 hours drive from Numrich!

Chris
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:19:23 PM by Sentry44 »

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2021, 08:47:50 AM »
Please keep us posted.

Cleetus

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2021, 11:04:11 PM »
So we do acknowledge that this vintage of Model 219 uses the top lever to cock the striker mechanism firing pin. It is always harder to move the top lever to the right when opening after the gun has been fired. I would be looking for a friction or binding issue in the striker channel. Also remember the striker and top lever are involved with resetting the safety.
Take the butt stock off and give the action a good cleaning with crude cutter or brake cleaner. Then spray in top good quality gun oil of Balistol and then use an air compressor to blow out the excess. Especially focus around the striker mechanism. Test cock it with the stock off before putting it back together. Always remember to tighten the through bolt firmly so that recoil impact doesn’t crack a loose buttstock.

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2021, 11:10:08 PM »
Cleetus,  Thanks for your input.

Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 05:10:29 PM »
Ok it's done.  Cleetus's point was well made, and I had givwn the entire guts a good blow out and then lube before I inadvertantly broke the ejector hook.

I agree, given this early mechanism, it's always going to be harder to open when decocked.  This was something more.  I could barely even open the barrel!

So yesterday I got my new parts, replaced the ejector hook (a brand new, perfect fit reproduction from Numrich), and then got to work on the ejector spring.

I have had other barrels which required a small amount of spring trimming, but this one is extreme.  I trimmed one down quite a bit and realized the extractor was still getting stopped out beyond the flush threshold of the breech.

So I ground about 1/16 off of the spring starter pin, grabbed a fresh spring, and trimmed again slowly until it felt like the right tension.

Took her outside and fired, then opened...all good.

Now, I would not have thought that that starter pin was long enough to get fully stopped out between the hook and extractor to not leave enough room for the extractor to seat flush when closed.  But this simply must have been the case.

So...FIXED.

New ejector hook, new [trimmed] ejector spring, and spring starter pin trimmed 1/16.

Sentry44
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 05:13:29 PM by Sentry44 »

Garnett

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2021, 05:27:59 PM »
Sentry, Thanks for this update!  As I understand what you are saying, the entire problem was caused by the starter pin.  Such a small part to cause so much trouble!  I hope all of this will help someone else.

Sentry44

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Re: Hornet barrel tough to open
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2021, 09:27:07 PM »
Actually Garnett, I think the problem is the style of ejector hook.  When I bought this barrel it was missing the hook, extractor, spring and starter pin.  So I bought all and installed.  But I think that the front of the ejector hook...the standing portion that gets pushed upon by the spring and starter pin, was too broad.  It explains why the replacement spring had to be trimmed to even get it to close in order to drive in the ejector retaining pin.

But shortening the spring still wasnt enough, because the starter pin was still too long after the spring was completely compressed.  So I shaved it.

So now all is good, but Im pretty sure the issue lies with the shape of the ejector hook just having too much meat.

I could probably have achieved the same outcome by removing some of the inner edge of the hook instead.

Sentry44
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:29:18 PM by Sentry44 »