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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / Re: New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:49:39 AM »
You can see in the previous image that the stock is cracked in two places. The same cracks are present on the other side of the stock also.  This is a common problem/factory defect on all models of this gun.  The wood is just too thin where it meets the metal.  I have even seen cracked stocks on the .22 Hornet calibers.  I strongly recommend to anyone who has one of these Savages, to repair the cracks and glass bed the inside of the wood and to be sure the stock bolt is securely tightened.  Most after market semi-inletted stocks are left with thicker wood at this point of wood metal contact.

The stock appears to be refinished at some point as there are some rounded corners where it meets the steel work and the plastic buttstock was removed when it was sanded as it now no longer meets flush.

The worst aspect of this timber is that a tang site was installed at some stage and some wood was sacrificed to do so. I wonder which came first, the tang sight or the scope?

There is also a little chip on the bottom of the grip. This would be an easy fix, but the other aspects make me think that I will just make another stock for it.

The trigger guard can also be seen here. It is pressed metal and requires the elusive 'shaftless' screw driver to remove for refinishing.  There are lots of original stocks for sale on Ebay and new semi-inletted stocks on the internet.  At some point in time Savage changed the outside dimensions to stocks, and while all will fit, the late stocks don't fit as well on guns like yours.  The early stocks have the very sharp, grooved comb, and the butt plates had flat head screws.  since your stock has been highly modified, you can't really see what the comb should be like.








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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / Re: New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:43:16 AM »
Here is a shot of the action and trigger mechanism. It seems from what I have learnt here is that it is one of the earlier guns.  Yes, your action is a very early one.  Over the years, there were 6 internal action designs.  The action remained the same externally.  They are: First Model Utica, Second  Model Utica, then after the moves to Chicopee Falls and West Field, the rifle model changed to 219B and 219C, with shotguns being designated as 220A, 220B, 220C and 220D.



There is a small number 21 in a circle on the right side of the action. What does this mean?This is an inspector number.  So far I have not found any way to identify inspector marks or the various other symbols found on these guns.


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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / Re: New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:39:25 AM »
I think I will need to re crown, or at least give a good clean to the muzzle if I am to try and determine a good load for this gun. The rifling is present but has seen better days too. Sometimes this matters, but I have also found that guns can still shoot well enough despite the wear they have.  I am not a machinist, but have two friends who are, and have read articles over the years, that the crown can affect accuracy.  But, again, I agree with you as I have some 1911 Colts with various condition original barrels, that still shoot better than I can hold them.



I wonder about the front sight. It seems to be missing a bead although maybe it never had one. The sight is not easy to see so testing will be a challenge. The rear sight is probably one of the tidiest features of this gun. It is so much better than the remainder that I wonder if it is original. Maybe it was removed when the scope was installed, and the owner was careful enough to store it and replace it when it was handed to the local gun shop. Everything about this rear sight is crisp, although it is just a little dirty.  I cannot tell from the picture of your front sight, whether or not it is correct.  The early front sights had a blade with a Gold bead and was secured with two screws.  That is the correct one for very early guns.  At some point in time Savage changed to just a plain blade with no gold bead.  I have found these intermittently during early production.  As to your rear sight, it is correct, an all milled heavy sight.  Later Savage changed to a cheap stamped sight for the balance of production.




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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / Re: New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:33:25 AM »
There are some holes that have been drilled for a side scope mount. I wish they were not there, but someone had a plan and this seemed to be part of the solution. I checked the thread size to be 3/32 - 32tpi, and my plan is to fill these holes and carefully take them down level.  When I first saw the picture with the holes for a side mount, I was excited, as a very rare factory option was to drill and tap the left side of the barrel for a scope base.  When this was done, the barrel writing was moved to the top of the barrel.  It is a shame someone drilled through the writing when a top mounted scope base(s) could have been installed.   I agree with your statement below, I would leave it as is and install two flat plug screws.  Or, you maybe could find an old Weaver side mount base, number "2    48402" made for this rifle.  So far in my research, I have not found which Weaver rings to with this base.

It is a shame that the stamp has been drilled through. I know that UTICA means something to the collectors here. I could restore the text carefully, but I think I will just leave the text missing. There is enough present to know what it should have said.

My plan is to reblue the metal work. I have experimented with rust bluing on other guns and found this to be a fairly straight forward procedure that looks great. It would also give me the chance to reduce the impact of the vice jaw marks.  I completely agree with your plan to "Rust" blue the gun.  The early models, until the move to Chicopee Falls, were done that way.  When these older models are "Hot"  reblued, the frames turn red or purple.



The left side of the action lets us know that it is in fact a 25-20 caliber. I think this means a whole lot more to some of those collectors. If you were close by, I'd let you have it for your collection, even if it is a 'well used' example.  I appreciate your thought, but thankfully, I have an almost new .25-20 that I purchased early in my research for my Savage book.


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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / Re: New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:26:46 AM »
Where to start....hmmm...?

Maybe with the stuff that interests Garnett....

All of the components are marked 208. I am not sure if this is a true serial number or if it is an assembly marking.
The stock is marked 208 O
The action is marked 208 O with a Z towards the hinge.
The barrel is marked 208 O with a J.  The number 208 is part of the assembly number.  Very few rifles, and even fewer shotguns, had traditional serial numbers , The serial numbers found so far, have been on the bottom left rear of the frames.  Normally the assembly numbers are a random mixture of letters and numbers.  Not even exactly the same on the 3 locations, barrel, inside frame, and stamped into the stock under the butt plate.  Now, what I am about to say is purely my opinion after several years of research.  I believe it is very likely that your rifle was originally a "Utility" gun with a matching shotgun barrel and separate forearm for the shot barrel.  My reason for thinking this is you have a 3 digit number, 208.  I have had 3 of the "Utility"sets.  One of them had the random letter/number combination, but the other two, were "52" and "333".  These numbers as with your rifle, were stamped on all 3 places.  The "Utility" sets are very rare.  The very few others I have seen for sale also have a 3 digit number on all 3 locations.






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Savage 219 Single Shot Rifles / New to me - 25-20WCF
« Last post by StevenJ on May 06, 2024, 05:22:44 AM »
Hi all,

I have posted on the introduction page to say g'day but I am going to post here about my new purchase.

I managed to pick up a 219 chambered for 25-20. It is a rough unit and not a collectors gun but I would be interested to know about its origin and what others may think about the idea I have to 'restore' or tidy up this gun.

I'll post the details in several posts to make it easier, but here is an overall image of the poor gun. I don't feel hard done by. I paid AUD $195 for it so it was not an expensive purchase. I bought it unseen, which is always a risk.

The positive features are that the metal locks up really tight. No movement what-so-ever. The rest I can work on over time.  Steve, Looking at the overall picture, the curved steel trigger guard along with the Utica name on the barrel, identifies your rifle as what I call a "First Model Utica".  It most likely was made before WWII. 


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Hi! My Name is... / Re: G'day All
« Last post by Garnett on May 05, 2024, 11:46:52 PM »
Steven, Welcome to the forum!  You have a very hard to find caliber in the .25-20.  Also, I can see from the steel trigger guard, that your rifle is what I call a  "First Model Utica".  It could have been made before WWII.  Few of these rifles had serial numbers, and even if it did, the records have been lost.  We look forward to more pictures. 
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Hi! My Name is... / G'day All
« Last post by StevenJ on May 05, 2024, 09:51:11 PM »
Gday all,

Thanks to Garnett for assisting me to get onto this forum. I recently picked up a Savage 219 chambered for 25-20. In trying to find out about my new purchase, I landed here and started reading. It seems at this is the calibre that people would like to complete their collection but this gun is no collectors piece. Ill open another topic to discuss it and to ask my questions and keep this as an intro.

My interests are making black powder and learning how to do as much as I possibly can myself to get my rifle shooting. I can't see that I would ever make my own brass or primers, but just about everything else is fair game.

My purchase precipitated because I was looking for a single shot that is easy to clean from any black powder fouling. I already use my black powder to load my shotgun but I wanted a cartridge gun to test my powder more quantitatively. I was also after a caliber that was suited to my small 18 acre parcel of land.

For me, I think I enjoy tinkering with the guns more than I like shooting them. I do like to shoot, but for me shooting is the moment of truth that the variables I have been chasing have had an effect.

Below is the photo that I think seems to interest people the most. Plenty more photos to follow.



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Buy, Sell, Wanted, and Trade... / New Book For Sale: The Ithaca Model 49 Saddlegun
« Last post by Garnett on March 27, 2024, 11:18:18 AM »
This book is about the Ithaca Model 49 Saddlegun.  This single shot .22 caliber rifle was made from 1961 to 1978.  It is a Martini style action with an outside hammer.  This 128 page book has 17 chapters of text along with color photographs.  It shares the history of this rifle along with disassembly/reassembly instructions.  It also has pictures of all the parts.  The text is large and easy to read.  The cost is $40 with free shipping via USPS Media rate to the lower 48 states.
Please click on pictures below to enlarge.






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Hi! My Name is... / Re: Greetings
« Last post by Garnett on March 25, 2024, 10:37:04 AM »
Rick, Welcome to this forum!  I suggest checking EBay as some of these parts come up for sale from time to time, but they are hard to find.  Best wishes, Garnett
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